We Are

My Photo
We are Mason & Nicholas, a couple living in Toronto since September 2006, that are chronicling our journey of immigrating to Canada from the United States. Thanks for visiting our blog, feel free to send us an e-mail - we hope you stick around, eh!

Outside

Blogs We Read

The Nightstand

« Merci Quebec | Main | A Final, Final Note »

05 November 2008

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00e54efe49be8834010535dba4cc970c

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference A Final Note:

Comments

Melissa

Well said. I, too, was struck by the Prop 8 numbers re voters of color and the relationship between that and the Obama vote. But, I guess if we keep in mind that he, too, opposes same-sex marriage...

And, this: "We’ve even been reminded in a back-handed way by someone we care for that since we didn’t stay and fight and instead decided to flee, this victory is somehow not ours to celebrate…even though we voted," completely pissed me off. Ick.

Tom

Great post Nick. When I saw the Stats on Prop 8 it really ticked me off. 70% of african americans voted for it..... simply disgusting. You would think they would learn from their own history.

All the more reason to be glad we are here safe and sound.

Jess

Now I see what the "Wow..." comment was about on Facebook. I'm glad I checked over here to see what that was about.
Let me first say that the comment was not directed personally at you but I find it ineteresting that you think that it was. I am the first person to tell someone what I think about them in a straight forward mannor and without regret. It was a blanket statement for all of those Americans who left. Who had no hope left and decided not to fight to change things here. And so I guess you could include yourself in that if you'd like. It was also about myself, one who had contmeplated for a long time leaving the country because I found the government and policies depressing here, but I didn't. I am proud of being an American and because of that decided to stay and fight for a change.
That's not saying you aren't proud Nick and Mason. I'm sure you are. The difference is, you're proud to be an American, but living as a Canadian. Not right or wrong, but a fact. I live in this country every day. I got laid off because of the past administration and the state of the American economy. My gay and lesbian friends who live here are affected daily by the ignornace in this country. But we have all stayed to fight.
I'm glad you voted. I'm glad that although you live in an entirely different country now, abide by their laws, pay their taxes, that you still find an interest in American politics. And still exercise one of the most importnt rights in America, using your voice to change the state of the nation.
There are a lot of things wrong with this country. A lot of things in this country to be embarrassed about. And a lot of things that need changing. Yes, believe it or not even those of us that still live here agree with you.
So if you want to make that "back handed comment from someone you care about" all about you, then that's what I have to say. And to read as far into it as you did, saying that it wasn't your celebration as well, well that's just what you get for reading into it instead of just asking about what I meant. I would have been happy to explain the comment to you.
I will say this, I have loved you as a brother since oh 1988. It was my family that took you in and made you part of our family. With open arms, no second thoughts. It was you who introduced yourself as "my father figure" when I had my first date. I have looked up to you as a big brother and part of me always will. I have loved Mason since the day I met him. He is one of the most dynamic people I will ever know. It was him who opened the door for me in the media industry in Denver. His name still comes up in conversation of who knows who when meeting new people and I am always proud to say he is my brother in law.
But somehow that has all gotten lost. Now, we, your Colorado family, have become people you care about. And that's just fine. Regardless of what you now think of me, care for me, say about me so I can get trashed by your friends who don't have the full story as you didn't, I will always love you brother. And am still happy as a clam for you and Mason that you followed your dream, moved to Canada, got married, will hopefully one day raise children. And sure enough, we, your Colorado family, will read about it on one of your blogs.
Be proud, for once your vote counted. I know that makes me smile.

John Williamson

I love reading your blog, I am a Canadian with an American partner living in San Diego, we were so thrilled that Obama won and deeply hurt that our right to marry has been resinded....how can anyone have faith when the constitution can be overturned to take rights away..and state after state voted to ban gay marriage again...I think you guys made the right move, we use to live in Atlanta, we would turn gray before that state would ever allow us to marry...have a look at election maps they say it all...Prop 8 was heavily funded by the Morman Church, and other groups of so called Christians...we plan to move to Vancouver in the future...we are tired of being second class citizens who's rights can be removed..cherish your freedom and love the land of your birth, no one can take that away...best wishes J&K sort of married??? 20 years..

Terri

Hello,

As a Californian, I am terribly upset by the passage of Prop 8. The legal arguments against it are strong, and I have full hope and confidance that this, too, will be overturned. There is also an active movement to the IRS to revoke the tax-exempt status of the Mormon church. They want to play politics, they can pay taxes.

We, too, are considering leaving. Although I am a straight woman married to a man, we feel that if rights are so easily taken away, no one is safe. What will be taken next?

In fact, I think we're further along than just considering a move. We're about 75% ready to go for it.

Perhaps someday, I won't just be a reader of your blog, but a "neighbour."

Terri

The Other

I want to say first..I am an American. Know, above all else, that you are loved. 100%. Deply, honestly, in life without borders. Simply because you are human...because you are alive. At the end of the day, this is what matters.

I was amazed by the outcome of Prop 8. I live in Virginia, where the gay marriage ban was long ago passed. The morning after election night, I checked the stats...and recoiled. How could a nation that voted Obama IGNORE the rights of any minority?!!! Then...I thought about it. I realized that it is not that minorities of color oppose those minorities of sexual orientation. But there was a pressure for non-white people in America to vote in 2008...that white people just will never understand. Minorities turned out in record number. STAGGERING numbers. But, like much of life in America, this coming of age did not come with a user's manual. A large number of minority voters simply had no idea of anything they voted for except Obama.

Imagine walking in to a voting booth determined that YOUR vote could change the WOLRD forever. Then...inside of the booth...you view the panel of names. Name after name. After name. And you knew ONE. And the issues to be voted upon?...forget it. Most of these people took a wild guess...not realizing that in America, a bad guess could erase the world you wish to create.

I just want to say that electing Obama was about nothing but race. Perhaps not to everyone, but to many. To others...he was about gender, or sexual orientation...or about tax breaks or education. However, at the end of the day he has a very long laundry list of things to acomplish. I very much hope that every American holds him acountable for all that he promised... stated outright, implied directly, or indrectly.

Stay in Canada. It's beautiful. I go there often. Consider a change of nationality. Give up on America and live a full life in a nation that welcomes you...now.

I'm a Republican who did not vote for Obama. It was not out of hate or bible-thumping or bigotry or...anything but financial and governmental concerns. You are always loved n America. But you are loved in Canada, too. And there you are ignored the rights you deserve.

Vancouver is STUNNING! And Olympics coming up soon, too. American is not the country well all dreamed it to be. Know that.

Shaun Bartone

"It was a blanket statement for all of those Americans who left. Who had no hope left and decided not to fight to change things here. And so I guess you could include yourself in that if you'd like."

That's what they want you to do. Stay and fight, fight, fight. Spend the rest of your life fighting for health care, fighting for gay rights, fighting to end the endless wars. Fight, Fight Fight. Until your sick and exhausted and old and after all that you end up with nothing anyway. They want you to keep on fighting because they know they will beat you down and win in the end.

I'm sick of fighting for what I should have as a human right. I just want to have it. I'm on my way to Canada to just have what I always should have had, without fighting to death.

Maggie

I'm sitting here wondering where this country would be if everyone who had a complaint just up and left instead of trying to change this country. Where would the civil rights movement have been if Martin Luther King Jr. had marched to Toronto instead of Washington?

Alice Paul and many other women starved themselves in prison fighting for a woman's right to vote in the elections that affect their lives. Everyone told them not to fight, including their husbands, brothers and fathers. I wonder now which side of the argument you would join?

I wish that all humans had the same basic rights, but I also believe that any self respecting person will stand up and demand their rights instead of running away and complaining about things from a distance.

" I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past" -Thomas Jefferson

Shaun Bartone

"I'm sitting here wondering where this country would be if everyone who had a complaint just up and left instead of trying to change this country."

*************************

What about the slaves who fled to Canada in the 1800s? Were they cowards? Should they have stayed in slavery and fought for freedom?

What about the Jews who fled Nazi Germany? Were they cowards? Should they have stayed and gone to the gas chamber with their comrades?

What about the draft dodgers and war resisters who fled to Canada during Viet Nam? Should they have stayed and gone to war, resisting the war from the front lines, from military prisons?

Don't you see what we are doing here? All of us gay ex-pat bloggers are forming an UNDERGROUND RAILROAD for gay people to get out of this gay-hating country. We don't just write our complaints. Several bloggers have taught me how to fill out immigration papers, how to get through the bureaucracy. I let an ex-pat blogger friend stay at my townhouse in Fredericton because for a couple of weeks she didn't have a place to live.

WE ARE AN UNDERGROUND RAILROAD FOR GAY PEOPLE TO ESCAPE TO FREEDOM.

Jess

Let me get this straight, did you really just compare yourself with slavery and Jews living through the Holocaust? Wow. Just, wow. *Shakes head*
Not that gay Americans don't have a struggle of their own, but really you just compared yourself to a time when people were being exterminated, or held as captives by people who demanded work out of them for no pay, who had no rights at all whatsoever. Whatever rights gay Americans are fighting for right now, you have always had more rights than they did at that time. Gay Americans are fighting for the right to get married and to be able to adopt children with ease. While awful that you have to fight for it, are you really going to compare that to slavery or the Holocaust? Really?
I personally have no problem with people who leave this country for whatever their reasons may be (gay rights, ex pats avoiding serving in the military), I just ask that when they leave they recognize that they're no longer a part of the daily life in America and stop stomping their feet from across border about our politics. You moved, embrace it, love it.I am happy for you that you followed your heart and dreams! Just quit complaining about America, you don't live here anymore. That's all I was saying. You made your statement about how you feel about the country, you left it.
But please don't ever try to compare yourself to slaves in America or Jews at the mercy of the Nazi's. It's laughable and makes what your fighting for seem less than because of the silly statements like that. You're fight is valid, but if everyone leaves who will fight the battle for you? I have my own battles to fight being a Jewish woman in America.

Shaun Bartone

As usual, 'YOIU HAVEN'T SUFFERED LIKE THSE PEOPLE SUFFERED, SO YOUR COMPLAINTS ARE NOMINAL, TRIVIAL, INVALID."

Again, WOULD BARAK OBAMA BE PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW IF HIS FATHER HAD STAYED IN KENYA? Think about it.

Shaun Bartone

What about the war resisters who are fleeing to Canada. Do you sneer at them too?

http://frreerobin.wordpress.com

Shaun Bartone

"I personally have no problem with people who leave this country for whatever their reasons may be (gay rights, ex pats avoiding serving in the military), I just ask that when they leave they recognize that they're no longer a part of the daily life in America and stop stomping their feet from across border about our politics"

I'LL SAY WHATEVER I WANT TO SAY, WHEREVER I WANT TO SAY IT, AND I'M NOT GOING TO LET YOU OR ANYONE ELSE SHUT ME UP!!

Shaun Bartone

This isn't just about marriage and adoption. ENDA, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act has STILL not passed. I personally have been the victim of 20 YEARS of EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION.

I do not have health care at present because I don't have gay rights--I am not entitled to my wife's benefits, so I have to go without health care. Pray I don't end up in an emergency room. (By the way, I'm still living in America, waiting to move in a month or two).

Now, Canadians, unlike many US counterparts, DO NOT trivialize or diminish the impact and meaning of gay rights. On the contrary, those I have talked to have always treated our demand for gay rights with the utmost sensitivity and respect.

On the other hand, they also realize that once you let gay people have their BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS, it really is, after all, not such a big deal. They don't understand why Americans have such a huge problem with this (exact quote).

As of today, in 47 out of 50 states, gay marriage is either illegal or banned under the constitution. DOMA makes it illegal at the federal level. There is no ENDA. Many states don't have HATE CRIMES protections for gay and transgender people, and transgender people, like myself, are frequently the target of violent physical attacks, ending in injury and death.

Our need for protection is real, and that's why I'm working to help people cross into Canada to at least have their BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS within their lifetimes

Jess

Did I strike a cord there? I never said your complaints were nominal or trivial, I just said you should think before comparing yourself to an enslaved people in America or the extermination of an entire race at the hands of a fascist government.
I think the complaints of gays and lesbians that live in America are valid. Everyone deserves the right to be with whom they choose in a marriage. I fight right along side them. I have never voted for any sort of marriage amendment because I think government has no place in a personal relationship between two consenting adults. I think any person who is fit to be a parent should have the right to adopt. Whether they be straight, gay or a single person. It's harder for single people to adopt as well by the way, not just gay couples.
But to compare that with being a slave, or facing a gas chamber both sanctioned by a government? Let's be serious. That statement in no way belittles the fight for equal rights across the board, for EVERYONE in this country. It's just over reaching in comparison. What's happening right now in Darfur is a better comparison to the Holocaust because it is a Holocaust, than comparing it to the fight for gay rights. How about Rawanda? More ethnic cleansing, guess who went and helped them there? The ignorant, horrible, hateful Americans did.
Why not compare it to the civil rights movement? Which American citizens did enact change. Why not compare it to women's suffrage, which did enact change. All with the voices and fight of the American people. People who had hope that a change would happen and pushed forward until it happened. You mentioned in one of your earlier posts that we who choose stay here and fight will spend our lives fighting and never see a change. Tell that to the hundred year old African American woman who made it a point to get up on election day and vote. And you know what? In her lifetime she went from segregation and women's suffrage to being able to cast a vote that helped put an African American in the highest office in this country. And change doesn't happen in one's lifetime? And for her, every second of that fight was worth it.
That's the beauty of this country. Yes we have our faults here, many of them. Most liberal Americans are ashamed by the current administration, current policies, the current ignorance of a large portion of the administration, myself included. But what's wonderful is if you don't like something here, you can work to change it. Just like the end of slavery, the end of segregation, women's suffrage, affirmative action, gay marriage in Massachusetts, etc.
There is also the beauty of being able to reside in another country, pay their taxes, abide by their laws and still use the most important right we have in this country, to vote to enact change even though you don't live here anymore.
A right both Nick and Mason still utilize. One I hope you still utilize if you haven't given up your citizenship. You know one of the reasons I value this right so damn much, well besides the fact that women starved themselves so I could exercise it, is because of Mason. The year I turned 18 Mason ran for office in Denver. I became very politically aware very fast working on his campaign. And the first vote I ever casted was for him. It was a huge monumental moment in my life, and even when I went to the polls this past Tuesday I thought of that first time I voted. I not only got to vote, but I got to vote for someone I knew personally, loved, thought fit to be in office and had ideas I really thought would do our city good.
I get that people have left this country because of the policies we have here. What I don't get is why they continue to bash it. Does you make you more secure in your choice of leaving? Does it make you feel better about your new home? Because for all the bashing you do, there are still a lot of wonderful things about this country. Many good things that out weigh the bad things for me.
I do have faced ridiculous ignorance in my life, I'm Jewish. I hear it all the time. Has anyone ever asked you if you were "Jewed" out of something? Ever run into a skin head before at night wondering if they'll notice the Star of David around your neck? I'm sure you have many similar stories. I just want you to know, your not the only group here that's discriminated against. Hell we're still working on equal pay for women.
So go ahead and yell about America and how much it sucks. How much we are ignorant and hate everyone. In the meantime I'll go ahead and continue fighting for our equal rights here. I'll continue to fight for the changes that I hope to see here in this country because the only way it changes is through a fight. But it's a fight that's rewarding and completely and totally worth it if you want it badly enough.

The comments to this entry are closed.

NO Deep integration!

September 2009

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
    1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30      

Our Photos

www.flickr.com
This is a Flickr badge showing public photos from masnick96. Make your own badge here.